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CD-i System ROMS

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:16 pm
by IsoBuster
I wonder ...
With CD-i being so old and (to my knowledge) no Philips support for it anymore, would it be so wrong to include the CD-i System ROMS in the download ?

- You could offer them seperately on the site but have people check a checkbox first (disclaimer) where they assure that they own such a player, yet are not capable of downloading the ROM from their device ?

- You could even try Philips IP and ask if you are allowed to do so (as they don't do support for it anyway) ... yet you risk waking the giant of course.

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:27 pm
by Bas
-First of all, the system Roms are not only copyrighted by Philips...
If nobody cares, that doesn't make it legal...

The license with Microware (the owner of the software) is still applicable on the new OpenTV projects and HDTV sets from Philips. In these projects the OS-9 DAVID (Digital Audio Video Interactive Decoder) is being used, based on the same license.

-You can't track the right holder of the Philips copyright. Philips will never be able to 'allow you' to use the Bios as freeware.

-From your point of view you could upload all software, as long as you include a disclaimer about that. That doesn't really make sense...

[welcome to the forums]

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:56 pm
by cdifan
I do not and will not offer the CD-i system ROMs for download.

The only thing that could possibly change this is proper permission from the respective rights owners, which is quite unlikely to happen, in my opinion.

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:08 pm
by IsoBuster
From your point of view you could upload all software, as long as you include a disclaimer about that. That doesn't really make sense...
That's definitly not what I meant.

I also didn't know the details behind the ROM licenses and the fact that it is still "so hot".
I just figured that Philips would not be too worried about this as in fact it's taking care of what they cannot do themselves anymore, supporting an existing user base.

I saw the download of the ROM more like a service to the user base,
people "have" it, yet are not able to download it from their own module (for various reasons, no cables, afraid of it, lazy, ...).
The disclaimer would protect you more ore less. Of course not if what you describe is the case.
The reasoning behind it ... people who want to emulate CD-i games *have* a CD-i player and want to go back in time for a while.
I don't see other people suddenly developing an interest in CD-i. (?)

I know it's thin, yet I thought Philips would not mind.
In fact after what you explained they probably would look at this with much amusement, they would not care, it's however the other parties involved that would not be too happy about it.

Pitty Philips is too big and bureacratic and too many partners involved in this, otherwise it may just have been possible.

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:33 pm
by KuroNeko
Isobuster == Isobuster author or did you just nick this for your nick :lol:


Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:37 pm
by Bas
i think we're talking with the author himself.....

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:38 pm
by KuroNeko
If it is him, you can pick his brain too. :twisted:

He worked where I worked :D, was closer to the organisatory part (and thus knows more intimate details about it all), and worked there from earlier on.

Neko waves to Isobuster :twisted: These guys here won't leave you alone now...


Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:43 pm
by Devin
First of all, welcome to the forums!! Always a pleasure to see people who support CD-i in the programs they develop especially one as useful as ISO Buster :D

We have discussed the possibility of licensing the CD-i ROM much as the Amiga Emulation scene does with KickStart. The first stop was obviously Philips IP who were contacted in the Netherlands, due to the Microware Intellectual Property in the OS-9 operating system incorporated in the CD-i ROM Philips cannot give official permission to license said ROM. However they did say that legal action would NOT be pursued by Philips through use of any CD-i ROM.

This means we need to approach Microware for any chance of getting a licensed and fully legal version for CD-i Emulator. We're currently investigating this channel so watch this space.

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:05 pm
by Erronous
Uhm, in my opinion there would be no need to go to Philips. Yes, if you plan to use a CD-i ROM made by Philips (which almost all of the ROMS are), but there seem to be non-Philips ROMS. No idea if those people will give permission though; and you would also need Microware to cooperate.

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:17 pm
by Bas
what about the roms in non-philips branded cd-i players?

Who did you spoke to, devin? I'm quite convinced not only one person can give any kind of permission, rather than his opinion ...

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:19 pm
by tgn_rogue
Would it not also be possible to get the system roms from the PC expansion cards that allowed people to play CD-i games on the pc??

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:44 pm
by Devin
tgn_rogue wrote:Would it not also be possible to get the system roms from the PC expansion cards that allowed people to play CD-i games on the pc??
The ROMS were apparently contained on the Floppy Disc containing the Drivers!! So these will be submitted to CD-i fan for analysis but we still have the Microware obstacle to overcome regardless of player make or model.

To answer your question Bas, I didn't personally talk to anyone at Philips about licensing a ROM for CD-i Emulator. An old friend of the project made some enquiries through Philips contacting the right people and that was the response given, strictly off the record "Philips will not pursue legal process if CD-i ROMS were used"

This doesn't make distributing the ROMS okay. As we stated before Microware still owns the copyright to this software.

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:18 pm
by IsoBuster
I suppose JK@IP has been involved in this Inquiry ?

- Yep, I'm the one and only :P
- Neko, how do we know eachother ?

I have no contacts inside Microware, so I can't help, but I'll be monitoring progress. I was involved with CD-i yet my knowledge on topic only grew afterwards, when I was doing writer stuff and so in fact when I was no longer involved with CD-i (CD-i was in fact dead by then). I know the CD-i format well, but I know little about the actual inside of a module and those kind of things, just the media-side of it if you will.

This is just my opinion of course, but making the emulator a success, also monetary wise, depends a lot on my initial remark, and that is the possibility to include or easily offer a ROM via download. Just my 5 cents.

Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:09 pm
by KuroNeko
We worked at the same company for a while, PIMC/PMTC.

Also sent you a PM.


Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:15 pm
by Devin
Yes you'd be right about that JK@IP!!

Of course the ideal scenario would be to release the ROM for free but as it stands this is not legally possible although I have seen websites make these ROMS readily available completely illegally along with some CD-i ISOs. I'm still following a contact who believes it might be possible to start communication with Microware about a licensed ROM but I wouldn't raise your hopes. The best solution would be a ROMless version of CD-i Emulator the possibility of which was discussed in-depth on The Black Moon Project with an Interview with CD-i Fan - Author of CD-i Emulator.