Any questions? :)

Anything relating to CD-i can be discussed in this forum. From the multiple hardware iterations of the system to the sofware including games, reference, music and Video CDs. Maybe you hold an interest in Philips Media and the many development houses set up to cater for CD-i if so then this is the forum.
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Any questions? :)

Post by jimby » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:34 am

Hey guys,

I just found this site, and it's brought back lots of memories for me. :)

Anyway, back in the day, I shot all the video blue screen, motion capture, and model animation, as well as the audio recording, mixing, and sound design for Zelda's Adventure, as well as working on a bunch of other titles, for both Viridis and Philips. Please don't hold it against me :)

I am in a mood to answer a few questions if anybody has any, so post away! Otherwise, take care ...

Cheers,
Jim

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Post by Bas » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:43 am

Welcome! It's nice to see old developers of cd-i titles visiting here and remembering how it was back in the day. Google didn't help me to find any contacts on Zelda's Adventure however and it's a great pleasure to have you here, Jim!

Ofcourse Zelda's Adventure is one of CD-i's most remarkable titles, including the Nintendo theme and an exclusive genre on CD-i. How was your role with Viridis? Viridis definately was more ambitious than just Zelda's Adventure, with over 12 titles on release lists. I always wondered what happened with Viridis after Zelda was released.

Any anecdotes I love to read about Zelda, the production of the story, what other titles you worked on...
How was Philips involved in the development process? (audio encoding, video encoding?)
What kind of issues did CD-i have,
How did you create the effects and atmosphere sounds in Zelda?

Thanks for joining Jim, hope to speak to you soon :)

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Post by jimby » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:09 am

Hi Bas,

I originally worked in the film industry back in the 80's but also knew my way around computers and digital technology. I also used to teach animation production at a local university. As a teenager I used to write my own computer games on the ancient TRS-80.

My first CD-i title I worked on was Caesar's World of Gambling where I was hired to direct all the voice over for that title. You see at the time (early days of CD-i) most of the people I met at Philips were good at the technology part of the equation, but rather inexperienced when it came to other tasks like dealing with actors, scheduling productions, doing creative direction in a way that got the best out of people, etc.

Anyway, much later, I was hired at Viridis by the owners (Christopher and Lee) to help them with this title called "Zelda" that had just gotten green light for production at Philips. (In fact, the name "Viridis" was a play on the Latin word for "green" )

So after going through the production design, and realizing that we had absolutely no budget at all, we had to get pretty creative.

This first big problem was the top-down motion capture of all the human characters to turn them into game sprites. Viridis had no money to rent a studio to shoot this properly; all they had was a 12x15 foot office with an 8 foot ceiling that I attempted to turn into a studio. It was basically impossible to shoot anything from the perspective needed for top-down sprites, so I had to get creative to make it work.

What I did was mount a large mirror on the 8 foot ceiling and place the camera on the floor shooting up into the mirror and back down to human actor. For the walk cycles I put the actors on a black motorized treadmill with registration marks and shot video of them as they attempted not to fall off the treadmill and break their heads. (We took the hand rails off :) The background was extracted by our artists and sprites were created. If we didn't like the way a sprite looked or was animated, we would shoot it again.

I painted one wall of the studio Ultimatte Blue so I could shoot all the blue screen FMV sequences. This was a total pain because we basically had no room, and for the longest time Chris and Lee were too cheap to install extra power lines for the lights. (One day I tripped all the breakers for the office lighting a scene, and it crashed all the development stations and servers. I got my extra power lines soon after that. :)

Once the bluescreen video was shot, then we had to laboriously digitize every frame (no realtime capture at that point). I would let the capture run over night. The next day I would start the background (bluescreen) removal. This would sometimes take 4 or 5 workstations several days to complete a sequence. Very primitive, but we were working with Mac Quadra 700s.

One of the many good things about working on Zelda was that I worked with Randy Casey, who was the lead engineer. This was one of Randy's first projects, and we got along well together. Randy eventually went on to Novalgic and was lead on a whole bunch of successful flight sim games from them.

Lots more stories, but you asked what happened to Viridis :)

Viridis always seemed to have budget problems; eventually when the Zelda was pretty much done, they laid me off. (I also worked on other game titles for them at the time, most of them never released.)

Anyway, I went on to Philips as a game producer where I managed their top selling CD-ROM game Fighter Duel, plus other titles such as Voyeur II and a bunch more.

Viridis, like a white dwarf that swells to a red giant, eventually had scores of people working there after I left (when I was there it was maybe 15- 20 people). Eventually Viridis couldn't make payroll, and many of their employees left. The end came not long after that for Viridis.

Anyway, more later as it's late here!

Cheers,
Jim
Last edited by jimby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Bas » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:12 pm

Excellent insights, I've sent you a message ;)

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Post by Tom » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:46 pm

heya, what other titles did you work for? And I heard all the scenery for Zelda's Adventure was shot in the Netherlands - is that true? If yes, where exactly? :)

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Post by jimby » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:51 am

Tom wrote:heya, what other titles did you work for? And I heard all the scenery for Zelda's Adventure was shot in the Netherlands - is that true? If yes, where exactly? :)
No scenery that I'm aware of was shot in the Netherlands. Almost all of it was shot in the Los Angeles area. We barely had budget for lights, much less travel expenses to the Netherlands!

Some of the background terrain textures were shot in Hawaii by me from a helicopter in the previous fall before starting the project, but they were vacation type pics and not paid for by the actual production. We were desperate for interesting terrain photos, so everybodies' holiday pics were fair game. We even sent some of the artists out with cameras to shoot macro shots of textures in the neighborhood.

All of the video was shot at our offices on Santa Monica Blvd. in West LA.

I'll cover some of the other games in the near future :)

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Post by thomas » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:23 pm

Did you or the company get any help/hints, or feedback from Nintendo at all?
Or was the Philips/Nintendo relationship already seperated by then?

Do you realise that Zelda's Adventure is one of the most hated games of the Zelda brigade/collectors (we call them Nintendo fanboys), with most of them never even played the game or even used a Philips CDi in the first place?

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Post by Devin » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:15 pm

jimby wrote:So after going through the production design, and realizing that we had absolutely no budget at all, we had to get pretty creative.
That's a point that was echoed in a recent article about the Spinnaker/Animation Magic Zelda games. I find it extraordinary how Philips had no idea what a great franchise they could've capitalised upon! That's not even to mention the chance to make some great Mario Platform games for the system!

It's great to hear your thoughts Jim. Besdies more info on CD-i, I'd love to hear about your work on CD-ROM. It's probably the least kept secret that we uncovered a Disc 1 prototype of Voyeur II for CD-i, unfortunately we lack the second to make a real game out of it. The encoding is mighty impressive and it's a pity a full release was never realised on CD-i.

Don't be a stranger now! :wink:

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Post by jimby » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:47 am

As far as I remember (I was the Philips project manager on Voyeur II), there was never more than fairly rudimentary code for the CD-i version. By that time Philips had refocused efforts on the PC and Mac platform.

That doesn't mean that more complete code doesn't exist, but I am certain that I would have seen and reviewed it if it did. You never know.

Perhaps InterWeave (the developer) had more complete code, but never submitted a test disc to Philips when the CD-i version was cancelled.

BTW, one little known piece of trivia is that InterWeave also submitted a short game demo of how they would have handled "The Crow."

One funny story about Voyeur II was told to me by Robbie (owner of InterWeave) while we were working on the project....

InterWeave was set up in a large house in Woodland Hills in LA. There was smaller house behind the larger house where Robbie had a recording studio and also space for his engineers and artists. Computers were running all the time as the artists and engineers were on deadline, and they had several computers just chugging away on the video compression alone.

In L.A., the city will sometimes scrutinize residences with unusual electricity usage as this is a good indicator of an illicit marijuana growing facility.

So one day the police show up at Interweave and wanted a tour of the property. I am sure they thought that when the looked in the rear facility they would find a whole array of metal halide grow bulbs and a complete pot farm.

When Robbie took them in, of course they were completely shocked to find a bunch of sweaty, sleep deprived programmers, and cranky graphic artists! The police left, not know what to think. :)
Last edited by jimby on Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jimby » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:59 am

thomas wrote:Did you or the company get any help/hints, or feedback from Nintendo at all?
Or was the Philips/Nintendo relationship already seperated by then?
I remember that Nintendo had final approval rights over the product, and they did see and approve all the Zelda games, but I don't think they were ultimately that interested. I think they thought of CD-i as some little niche product that they could safely ignore.
thomas wrote:Do you realise that Zelda's Adventure is one of the most hated games of the Zelda brigade/collectors (we call them Nintendo fanboys), with most of them never even played the game or even used a Philips CDi in the first place?
It wasn't my favorite either. The decision to use DYUV backgrounds killed the gameplay for me. The background scrolls took too long. Given the size of the project, Randy (the engineer) did a great job considering he wrote almost all the code himself. The CD-i platform was so technically limiting (once the decision had been made to use DYUV backgrounds) that doing anything complicated was extremely frustrating. I remember when we discussed sound effects during gameplay were were literally haggling over 1k or 2k of free RAM and how best to use it.

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Post by thomas » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:19 pm

jimby wrote:
thomas wrote:Did you or the company get any help/hints, or feedback from Nintendo at all?
Or was the Philips/Nintendo relationship already seperated by then?
I remember that Nintendo had final approval rights over the product, and they did see and approve all the Zelda games, but I don't think they were ultimately that interested. I think they thought of CD-i as some little niche product that they could safely ignore.
thomas wrote:Do you realise that Zelda's Adventure is one of the most hated games of the Zelda brigade/collectors (we call them Nintendo fanboys), with most of them never even played the game or even used a Philips CDi in the first place?
It wasn't my favorite either. The decision to use DYUV backgrounds killed the gameplay for me. The background scrolls took too long. Given the size of the project, Randy (the engineer) did a great job considering he wrote almost all the code himself. The CD-i platform was so technically limiting (once the decision had been made to use DYUV backgrounds) that doing anything complicated was extremely frustrating. I remember when we discussed sound effects during gameplay were were literally haggling over 1k or 2k of free RAM and how best to use it.
Well, that's the technical side of things, playable it's not really that bad, I mean I played worse on the PC platform in the early 90s.
>Many people hate Amidar on the VCS because of it being so slow with the joystick movement. For me it is an excellent game, once you get used to the controls.<

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Post by Bas » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:16 am

thomas wrote:Do you realise that Zelda's Adventure is one of the most hated games of the Zelda brigade/collectors (we call them Nintendo fanboys), with most of them never even played the game or even used a Philips CDi in the first place?
Is that why those Nintendo fanboys pay hundreds of dollars for this title ;)
I don't agree with you: Because most of them never played the game, they all follow one opinionated way of talking. Zelda's Adventure is highly underrated, it's a good game imho. It is the most expensive title to get for CD-i nowadays (ex. exceptions ofcourse), but ofcourse it's not from Nintendo itself!

It's just a shame the Nintendo tag puts a lot on its shoulders!

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Post by tgn_rogue » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:43 pm

Bas wrote:
thomas wrote:Do you realise that Zelda's Adventure is one of the most hated games of the Zelda brigade/collectors (we call them Nintendo fanboys), with most of them never even played the game or even used a Philips CDi in the first place?
Is that why those Nintendo fanboys pay hundreds of dollars for this title ;)
I don't agree with you: Because most of them never played the game, they all follow one opinionated way of talking. Zelda's Adventure is highly underrated, it's a good game imho. It is the most expensive title to get for CD-i nowadays (ex. exceptions ofcourse), but ofcourse it's not from Nintendo itself!

It's just a shame the Nintendo tag puts a lot on its shoulders!
True, Ive heard enough of the arguments from the fan boys online in the past to pretty much Know exactly what the fan boys will say when they even hear a mention of the titles. Although it seems to me that not many of them know of Zelda's Adventure they seem to spend most of their time slagging off the other two.... and even then its just about the animated scenes and not actual gameplay ... seing as you rightly pointed out they have never played them and just take the Shepparded view.

Personally I really like all 3 of the games, Zelda's Adventure especially and find them a refreshing change of pace form most the other Zelda titles .
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Post by rupert » Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:14 pm

tom spreading the word :D
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96480 It's a shame more people dont realise what a great system they are missing.

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Post by Duke Serkol » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:11 pm

Oh man, I hope I'm still in time to ask some questions. I have plenty! :)
jimby wrote:I remember that Nintendo had final approval rights over the product, and they did see and approve all the Zelda games, but I don't think they were ultimately that interested. I think they thought of CD-i as some little niche product that they could safely ignore.
Guess they underestimated the power of their franchises. I bet the fact that there was a "final approval" of sorts won't change the way everybody look at these games.
I mean they may not be up to the level of enjoyment Zelda has established, but I still had fun playing them. In particular Zelda's Adventure that used the real Zelda style of gameplay and not the side scrolling one from Adventure of Link (which is not something for which either AoL or the other CD-i games should be scoffed, but ya know, Zelda is top view)

As a matter of fact, Zelda's Adventure (as well as the side scrolling CD-i Zeldas) came out during the long gap between LA and OoT, when I needed my Zelda fix the most. So thanks a lot Jimby, your game has effectively kept me from hating Nintendo's guts for making me wait so long for a new installment. As a matter of fact, I suspect that of all people who played this game I may be the one who enjoyed it the most. I even took stats for enemies and weapons to use in my paper and dice Zelda RPG, if that's any indication 8)
jimby wrote:The decision to use DYUV backgrounds killed the gameplay for me. The background scrolls took too long. Given the size of the project, Randy (the engineer) did a great job considering he wrote almost all the code himself. The CD-i platform was so technically limiting (once the decision had been made to use DYUV backgrounds) that doing anything complicated was extremely frustrating. I remember when we discussed sound effects during gameplay were were literally haggling over 1k or 2k of free RAM and how best to use it.
Yeah, loading times were a real pain. I suppose that's the reason the overworld had no music and each dungeon room had its own (often too long for the player to hear before moving on to the next one...).
Yep, those were definitely the game's biggest problems. But look on the bright side, this is still the only Zelda game made by using this technique (photographing real people and places to make them into a game).
Speaking of which... do the houses seen in this game exist somewhere? Or were they scale models?

Anyway, I heard once from somebody running a CD-i site that a sequel of this game was in the works, that footage of it was shown at a convention but that as with Mario's Wacky Worlds, the game had to be cancelled whenthe rights expired.
Is any of that true?

Also I realize you were in charge of the graphic, but in case you'd happen to know, I'd like to ask some questions about the story. Like why have Zelda rescue Link again?
Lastly was this game intended as a sequel to some specific previous title? I ask because the other two CD-i Zeldas seemed based off the cartoon, because of their characters (like the king) and therefore the NES games the cartoons were based on (Impa, for one, is not in the SNES Zelda), so I consider them as intended sequels for the NES games.
With Zelda's Adventure however, I was never able to tell if you guys intended it as following the previous two CD-i titles (which would answer the question of what ultimately happens to Ganon after being sealed in the book) or as a sequel to A Link to the Past (since Zelda wears the exact same dress as in that game's artworks, but Ganon was supposed to be dead after ALttP)... or as a standalone game without ties to any other Zelda in particular, which I suppose may be very likely.

Sorry if the post got long winded. If it's too bothersome to answer all the questions I'll be happy with just the one about rumors of a sequel. Thanks :)

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