Software problem! The 7'th guest

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Software problem! The 7'th guest

Post by Realtime » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:23 pm

So heres my second post counting the hello post hehe

Yea here it is one of my first games i got with my verry first cd-i back in the early 90's was the 7th guest and it has been well used etc and i dont use my old cd-i player anymore i got others i noticed that my 7th guest isnt really behaving hehe i red somthing in another thred here about the early release having a "bug" that locks the game hangs it when you click the good old cake and thats excactly what happens i click cake the fmv starts, zooms in freezes, clears up to still picture and then....nada hehe i thought it was a problem with my disc after trying on all machines etc so i hunted and hunted found several other 7th guests but none work same problem cake whont work... please tell me there is somthing someone can do hehe i'l do anything to have a working copy again ive sold all copys again since they didnt work either except my original so i still own an original with music cd to :P Please any help would be apreciated.

Regards // RT

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Post by Bas » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:09 pm

After Philips released the 4xx series it turned out the 7th Guest didn't play on it. It crashes when a puzzle was loaded, while the 2xx series did play fine. So in 1995, Philips had to rebuild the disc, and a new version came out eventually.

The new version was released in a video cd jewelcase. I hardly see any of these anymore, I guess the majority is of the first batch.

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Post by Realtime » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:00 pm

Ahh well whats wierd is that i have tried all the versions i got my hands on one all three of my machines, the 450, 220 and the CDI 670 and all get the same excact problems mind you its only the cake one, i whent in to the library/study room to see if the telescope puzzle would load and yes it indeed did.

So if anybody could help in anyway i would be much obliged and thanks bas :)

Regards

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Update!

Post by Realtime » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:13 pm

ok doing a new reply since i was wrong and must not be overlooked it was a while since i did it and i forgot or it got twisted yes the version i have and all the ones i did get my hands on did all work for my 450 but did NOT work for the 220 nor the 670 so .UPDATE. The version i have and the others i got my hands on and sold did all work for the 450 not the other two, and my problem is the same and i guess was answered partly by Bas. If i understood correctly i need the "old" realease of the 7th guest to be able to run it on my 220 and 670?

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Post by gtdalby » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:18 pm

If you have more than one copy of the new version of 7th guest, I could swap you for the old one.

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Post by Realtime » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:25 pm

I wish i had, i sold them all again except the first one i had wich apperantly is the new *fixed* version. If i had an extra i would gladly trade you one.

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Post by XCLTempesT » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:43 pm

Bas wrote:After Philips released the 4xx series it turned out the 7th Guest didn't play on it. It crashes when a puzzle was loaded, while the 2xx series did play fine. So in 1995, Philips had to rebuild the disc, and a new version came out eventually.

The new version was released in a video cd jewelcase. I hardly see any of these anymore, I guess the majority is of the first batch.

The case is a very bad way to tell what version it is. The jewel cases get broken a lot, so a lot of people replaced the box.

Is there any other way to tel what version the disc is?

I mainly have "the 7th Guest discs" that were released in the Netherlands (English disc with Dutch manual).

If I look at the number at the center of the disc I get 8110033V113 and on others 8110033V203 . Is that the way you can tell the software versions apart? (at least for the European version? )
Not all v203 discs come in VIDEOCD cases (2 out of 3 do) and not all V113 discs had CD-I printed on the case (1 out of 11 came in a videoCD case, but the previous owner may have switched the case, I don't know)
I own 15 copies of the 7th Guest (it isn't very rare) 1 US title (a different pressing so no number) 11 discs are marked v113 discs (1 UK, 10 Dutch), and 3 are V203 discs (Dutch). So if this is a representative group, that would mean 1 in 5 discs are V203.

But this number may also just be a pressing number, that has nothing to do with software. Could anyone tell me how I can tell? At what point in the game should there be a problem with the puzzle?

btw. I'm selling a 7th Guest v113 in a VideoCD case on Ebay.co.uk. Please look for a link in the Market place section if you are interested, I don't want to spam outside of there.

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Post by Bas » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:58 am

You're right Bernard, I also changed my patched version into a CD-i case, because it's no VideoCD!

the first version of The 7th Guest hangs when trying to start the first cake puzzle. It's basically the very first puzzle you enter when playing the game. The intro plays fine, the menu works fine. So you enter the dining room (left door from the start entrance) en you watch the cut-scene. After that, you click on the cake when the cursor changes in a skeleton. At this point the system hangs.

The new patched version doesn't.

Let's have a look, I only have the new version. Mine is a V203, so that could be true! Nice find Bernard! Can you test both on different players? I'm very interested to hear your results!

Perhaps Devin still has more US versions and he can test (if there are different version numbers as well) them on a few players?

Also Erronous might have a few of these, maybe he can confirm it!

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Post by XCLTempesT » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:34 pm

I did a quick test with one v113 and one v203 on a cdi-450/00 and on a CDi470/00 player.

All discs worked without any problem, I could play the puzzle normally.

When I was a child I played this game a lot, and loved it very much, I never had any problems with it.

I'll test a CDi-670, CDi-220, CDi370 and CDi 740 when I have the time

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Post by Bas » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:00 pm

Typical! I bought mine around 1995. I was one of the unfortunates that got a 450 player and my copy of The 7th Guest did not work. I went back to the store and my problem was already known. Philips was working on a solution and I had to wait for around two months when the new version arrived. Philips had a flyer in their own Philips employee shop and a shelf with all patched versions in a VCD jewelcase. Everyone who had problems with the old version could change it for a new one.

By the way, around the same time they re-released the same game with a dutch manual. When the game came out in 1993, here in The Netherlands there was only an english version. Somewhere in 1994/1995, they translated the manual. I don't know if this was the exact same pressing.

I discussed this with a guy who worked at the Dorking studio (the place where The 7th Guest was converted to the CD-i format) and he explained the problems arrived when Philips announced the 4xx series.

Now you confuse me again!
Last edited by Bas on Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by XCLTempesT » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm

I tries it on a CDi-220/60 and on a CDi-370/00 player, both work without any problems.

I checked both discs using iso buster, and they are (a little bit) different.

The only file that has a different date (and size) is the "cdi_t7g" file on the disc.
on the v113 discs it is 153600 Bytes with date 29-3-1994
on the v203 discs it is 151422 Bytes with date 1-3-1996

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Post by Bas » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:10 pm

1-3-1996? Does my memory fail on me :roll: ! I really thought I got mine in 1995. I'll open my version with Isobuster to check it.
Nice bit of trivia Bernard!
edit: shoot, i don't have Isobuster on this PC. Installing Installing
edit again: mine has the same 1-3-1996 file. Hmm. I must have got it around 1996, then :lol:
The others files are from 1994, so those aren't from the first version I guess?

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Post by XCLTempesT » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:26 pm

I checked all my the 7Guest discs.

There seem to be only these 2 versions. the US disc I have has identical file sizes and dates as the v113 discs.

Also the dates of the files suggest the game wasn't released for cd-i in 1993 at all, but in fact it was 1994 (probably April or May ) .

Do you have any suggestions on how I can reproduce these bugs?
I used a "clean" cdi player (no save games) when I tested it and went straight to the "gravedigger pie" puzzle, skipping the cut scenes.

I could not reproduce the problem on the 4 players I tried (450/00, 470/00, 220/60, 370/00). I see little point in testing even more players without a bit more concrete evidence.

Maybe there was an even older version of the 7th Guest for cd-i in 1993? But I very much doubt it. I think the copyright on the disc has to do with the name (when the PC version was released)
according to wikipedia the cdi version was released in 1994

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Post by Bas » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:44 pm

hmm... did you turn off your player when changing discs, or did you keep it on?

Maybe the newer version has an updated driver file which updates the player until it is turned off. So when you play an old version after the new version, the new driver might be still in the memory of the CD-i.

It's just a guess, but I remember we had more discussion about these driver updates as included in newer games. At least it seems to make more sense for Philips to patch a driver rather than changing the game source as the original studio was long gone in 1996!

Unfortunately I don't have my old version of 7th Guest anymore, neither do I have the 450 player. So I can't reproduce it!

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Post by Realtime » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:57 pm

Hmm now heres somthing that i find even more intreguing :wink: So we have "two" main versions of the 7th guest (cd-i) the first one wich does not play on the 450 model etc and the new one wich aperantly solves that problem..... but hold on a minute is it just me or did they just reverse the problem instead of fixing it? the new one sure does not hang on the "newer" models but it does on the old for instance my 670 and 220 model but the original version of the game aperantly do not.... sooooo hmm am i right or wrong here hehe i mean good job and the nerd in me comends and finds it most interesting in all your findings on dates, versions and serial numbers etc.. but to be honest i find it more interesting that they actually pawned of a fake fix for us consumers since the new version only has the problem moved to the old models playing the new discs.... the version i have is aperantly the fixed version and plays like a treat on the 450 but it hangs on my 670 aswell as my 220 the same way that it would aperantly hang on the 450 if it was the "old" release.
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