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Black and White video output??

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:38 pm
by notHuman
Hi I just got a Philips CD-i PAL version... 220/60
I couldn't get any video to work on my plasma tv so I just hooked it up to the older square tv. it's hd compatible but i'm just connecting it via the yellow/red/white wires.

Anyway I was happy that it seemed to work on the old tv!! But everything is in black and white...

I'm using an NTSC tv as I'm living it up in Canada.

So to sum it up:
-Philips CD-i 220/60 PAL
-square philips TV NTSC
-video only outputs in black and white

Thanks so much if anyone can help me with this... very excited to get using this thing!

Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:56 pm
by cdifan
I'm afraid the difference is because of the PAL / NTSC mismatch, at least that's usually what we get in Europe if you connect NTSC equipment to PAL-only displays. But a lot of modern displays are dual-standard nowadays.

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:45 am
by notHuman
Cool thanks!
I'll find the manual for my plasma tv and hope for the best... i tried hooking it up again to the plasma but it still gets no signal. Could I maybe have to enable 16X9 before hooking it up? I mean if I enable 16X9 on the suqare tv (in black and white) and then try again with the plasma?

Well, I'll give it a shot in the morning... I'm defeated for the day.

Thanks again for the help. This seems like a really friendly place.

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:44 am
by cdifan
The CD-i 16x9 setting, as far as I know, only toggles a single signal in the SCART (euroconnector) output of your player, it does not change the video signal in any way.

Since you have NTSC displays, I doubt if they have SCART connections...

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:22 pm
by notHuman
Yeah I'd never seen one of those euroconnectors before getting this cd-i. There's another tv in the next room but it's usually being used for crappy shows. But if I get a chance I'll try it out on tv number 3 haha. This final TV i have is a 54" plasma... it's the newest and best in the house.

It's not my last hope, i'm still pretty happy just that the machine works as well as it does! Worst case scenario, play some games in black and white I guess.

I'll post an update once I get a turn on that big plasmar

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:23 pm
by notHuman
The 54" tv produced a picture that was constantly moving up kinda like old tvs when you had to adjust the knob hahaha. But I was looking up some stuff online and found this thing...

It's supposed to be able to convert any format to any format. Has anyone on here had any experiences with this thing? This might be the solution to my problem :)

(also I hope I am allowed to post a link like that... if not i appologize)

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:39 pm
by Erronous
Well, if that didn't work there's always another way. IIRC the CD-i will output it's video in a RGB format which is then converted to PAL or NTSC via another chip. This chip can be switched to NTSC mode with some soldering. I think I did this once a long time ago, but I'm not sure anymore which model CD-i player it was

So basically you'll have to research that yourself and no guarantees that it will work :) .

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:43 am
by cdifan
That would convert the modulation type, but probably not the timing.

Many players are configurable via some kind of jumper; I'll check my CDI 660 service manual for you...

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:43 pm
by Adr990
Intressting, can you post a picture of the Chip MOD/Switch?

I'm living in Europe, but I just would like to know it, it can only come in handy. haha

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:05 pm
by notHuman
Wow yeah that would be great if I could just configure some jumpers!

Thanks again for all the help guys.

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:03 pm
by Erronous
notHuman wrote:Wow yeah that would be great if I could just configure some jumpers!
No, that would not be the case. You'd have to do some soldering and most likely replace a crystal. Now for someone to open up his cd-i player and make a picture of the board inside.

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:01 pm
by cdifan
My scanner is inoperable right now but in the 210/40 and 220/60 there are two input signals for the IKAT processor that have either a pullup or a pulldown resistor of 10k:
- pin 18 (PD1) pullup (3272) is labeled "ONLY FOR DISPLAY CDI 220"
- pin 18 (PD1) pulldown (3273) is labeled "ONLY FOR DISPLAY CDI 210"
- pin 58 (PC7) pullup (3203) is labeled "ONLY FOR NTSC"
- pin 58 (PC7) pulldown (3204) is labeled "ONLY FOR PAL"
The IKAT processor is the MC68HC0518 (7201).
It is a smaller square chip close to the large square 68070 cpu (7210).

Changing these inputs will change the software side of things (translation: it works in CD-i Emulator); whether or not this generates a working video signal remains to be seen. Most of the video processing stuff is digital and has no PAL/NTSC dependencies, but the analog part has little filtering differences...

Edit: I do not have a 220/60 but I do have a 210/40 which according to the service manuals has an identical main board. I'll try opening it up this weekend, don't know yet if I'm bold enough to try the soldering thing on it...

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:47 am
by cdifan
I opened up one of my 210/40 players (I turned out to have two!) and performed the soldering. The full picture series can be seen here.

Service manual cutout showing the two resistor pairs.

The four new wires (+5V, GND, PD1, PD7).

I still need to obtain and connect two 10k resistors and two switches.

Now for the interesting question: did it work?

At least for the PAL/NTSC switch it seems to: the composite output will now display gray on my PAL TV, which usually indicates NTSC, and the software runs in 240 lines / 60 Hz mode as expected.
Note that the euroconnector (SCART) output still displays color, but that is to be expected as it includes component video signals. My player does not have a Y/C output so I cannot test that.

I have so far not seen any differences resulting from the 210/220 switch.

According to the service manual, the main board should be identical between the 210/40 and 220/60 players. There may be some differences between the physical layout of the players, of course.

To perform this procedure you will need a set of TORX (Philips) screwdrivers and electronics soldering tools, but the procedure is not complicated although it requires a bit of care.

Hope this helps!

Edit: Fixed the picture series link.

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:12 am
by Adr990
Ah nice man! Thanks for sharing.

Though, the picture series URL doesn't work.

I was opening up a 470/20 today, to fix some things.
The Timekeeper, and CD drive noise.

Sadly, my screwdriver adapter is to thick to get in the CD drive screw holes. (Those are really deep. :P)

But, I also have a 210 (boxed :D ) here, to try this video output mod.
No rush here though.

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:08 pm
by cdifan
Adr990 wrote:Though, the picture series URL doesn't work.
Oops, fixed that.
Adr990 wrote:But, I also have a 210 (boxed :D ) here, to try this video output mod.
Note that only the 210/40-/59 and 220/60-/79 players have this exact main board, for others the circuit diagrams and/or the board layout may not match. They may allow a comparable mod, of course.